Reimagined and Revamped. Fighting the spread of nonsense often feels like a Sisyphean task. However, the joy is in making the information available, not the hope of conversion.

We vaccinated our daughter and have seen severe changes in her

I’m writing this post because there is a lot of hoopla about vaccinations right now and I think one more anecdote to the pile of anecdotes out there about vaccinations is important.

My daughter, Bean (yeah, that's not her real name), is going to be three really soon and I need to go into her history a bit to really be able to delineate her vaccination story effectively.

Bean was born about three years ago to two of the most loving parents on the planet, if I don’t say so myself. To this day I’m amazed at the changes your body and brain go through when you have a kid. I was always the kind of guy that thought kids were something my sister should have, I now have completely reversed that position.

Its amazing to me how you can love someone so much that just cries, needs to be fed, burps, pukes, pisses and poops. But you do, and each week that passes, I love her more and more. Bean learned to walk a little later than average, but not much later, 13 months. But she learned some basic sign language at 8 months (“more” was her first signed word).

Our household has 2 languages in it, I’m an English speaker trying to learn French. My wife is French who speaks perfect English. We decided that I would talk to Bean in English and she would talk to her in French.

With the signing and the dual languages we expected her to start speaking late and she did. But in time we started to realize that she still wasn't speaking even after allowing for some extra time. There was a word here or there, but she was way behind in speaking. The inability to communicate lead to temperament issues and the all out tantrums were both common and severe. As new parents we had trouble differentiating between normal toddler tantrums and this. But looking at the pace of other kids, we slowly realized that Bean was behind the curve.

We further noted extreme discomfort in social situations. She did a little better with adults, but when it was other kids she would be very flustered and usually end up in a tantrum. Its so hard to see someone you love that much get so upset by normal social interactions that other kids are actually having fun with.

We also noticed that she was rarely smiling or happy. She didnt giggle like other little girls not near as often.

In time we got child therapists. New York State has a great program where therapists come to your house to help your child get up to speed. We have a speech therapist, an occupational therapist (not what it sounds like, the OC helps her negotiate new and different tactile senses), and a therapist to help with her social interactions. I really appreciate these programs available in my sate and now understand where some of the exorbitant tax money goes.

We also took Bean to a developmental psychologist. The autism word was thrown around, but it became clear that bean was probably not autistic. She was very ahead in some cognitive areas and very behind in others, but he didn't think it was a case of autism.

 

I want to fast forward to the beginning of October now. Bean got her flu vaccination. It had thimerisol and everything. She had absolutely no physical reactions to it whatsoever: no fever, no swelling, no pain. However since the shot there have been some huge changes in her.

Bean was able to start school since then. She can be in a group of 7 kids in good comfort. This is totally amazing. She has been really fun to be around, really explorative, points out lots of new things here at home, at school and at our weekend house. She can talk well enough that we generally understand what she wants to say although there is still some baby talk that comes out that is hard to understand. She laughs at funny stories or when we joke around. She still has tantrums when she doesn’t get her way, but they are rarely for random or unintelligible reasons anymore. Basically it feels like ever since we got the flu shot for her, she has become a normal child for her age.

 

Everything in this post is 100% true and accurate as far as I can remember it. I am also 100% sure that if I ask my wife, she will have a different chronology and describe the severity of different aspects of Beans personality differently, but not differently enough that we couldn’t ascribe her improvement to the flu vaccination. You’ll notice that I went ahead and gave credit to the vaccination for her improvement and not the months of work the therapists did.

But I know its not the flu vaccination, of course it isn’t, because there is no reason to think that it is, just like the other way. Just because something happens hours, days or weeks after a vaccination doesn't necessarily mean that it was because of the vaccination itself. The cause and effect must specifically be studied. To date there is simply no good reason to fear vaccines unless you have allergies to eggs, or some familial history of negative reactions.

 

I understand how vaccinations work with your immune system. I learned it in high school and relearned it to be able to understand this so called controversy. I have heard the claims by antivaxxers and have read the responses of medical professions on each and every one of those claims even as goalposts move. I then went and checked the claims of the medical professionals. You know what? the people who actually do science and medicine as a living are far better at explaining why they are right, backing up their claims with references that actually confirm what they are saying and have far, far larger datasets that they draw on to show the veracity of their claims. That is part of the years of training that went into their education to be a medical professional. Folks like Kevin Trudeau, Jenny McCarthy, and JB Handley have never had to deal with that rigor and are completely unequipped to back up anything they say without misrepresentation, conspiracy theories, and ad hominem attacks. Their delusions are no more probable, no more explainable, and no more real than the idea that my daughters extreme cognitive improvement came from the flu vaccine.

I love my daughter. I love her to the point that stepping in front of a moving train for her seems like a tiny inconvenience. Part of my love for her is to show her immune system what the bad guys look like, so it can fight them without causing suffering for her.

 

Oh, and by the way, I didn't start speaking until I was near three. No, I don't think any delays she had were from her vaccinations.

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I'm reasonably certain I didn't have any speech delays as a child, but my social skills were...well, let's just say I started kindergarten a year late because up until I was 6 I would growl at strangers who tried to talk to me and then attempt to punch them.

Looking back, I wonder if "autism" might have been thrown around at the time had my parents taken me in for my lag in social development.

You know, there is a chance that her improvement came as a result of her flu shot. You can't prove it wrong, you know.
1 reply · active 475 weeks ago
and how old are you? Maybe you were vaccine injured too?

I guess if you won't open your eyes and mind you may see more injury for Bean with her preschool shots

Sheri Nakken, RN, MA
Sheri,

Thank you for posting.

"I guess if you won't open your eyes and mind"

that just means "unless you see things my way..."

I am 41. I went to normal schools, normal college, got a normal PhD in engineering. I had no childhood issues other than allergies and asthma (i lived in NYC where there is a high incidence of it and had bronchitis as a child, which are far better indicators of asthma than vaccines). What is it i may have missed that would indicate any sort of vaccine "injury"?

Plopping RN after your name is completely meaningless with regard to discussion for 2 reasons. 1) it doesnt matter if you are the pope or the president, unless you are going to make a substative argument that vaccines cause any of the health problems you are afraid of, you are just trying to get away with an argument from personal authority, which as I pointed out, is common for antivax folks. 2) there are a lot of great nurses, my sister is one, but sadly for you guys it was nurses who are promoting Therapeutic Touch, a brand of nonsense a 9 year old girl can debunk. So sorry if I ignore your credentials while you make claims bolstered by a logical fallacy. As you should ignore my credentials if I am making claims.

Techskeptic, PhD.

p.s. Now if you actually have a substantive argument to make that shows that there are unrecognized injuries associated with vaccines please feel free to put them here. Unlike you, I am actually open to arguments and do not think an "open mind" means "think what I think". But as I mentioned above, you don't need to bother if it is ridden with logical fallacies or conspiracy theories. It will have the same non-effect on me.
Sheri: "...more injury for Bean?" If the post-vaccine changes in Bean fit your definition of injury, then I say bring on the injury! You must also call winning the lottery "bad luck."

It really scares me that a nurse would be arguing against childhood vaccinations. I expect healthcare professionals to base their recommendations on science and evidence, not logical fallacies, emotional fear-mongering, and scary anecdotes.

I have always trusted and respected my kids' pediatrician and his nurse. That trust was shaken on a recent visit when the nurse told me that they would not administer both the H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccines less than 30 days apart. I pointed out that the CDC says the types of vaccines their office used can be safely given during the same visit. I also pointed out that the head of their clinic had circulated an email affirming that there was no need for a waiting period between the vaccines.

She said they knew that, and the doctor didn't want to explain his reasons, but it was his personal preference to separate them by 30 days. I said that if they were going to deny my kids the best possible protection from a very clear and present danger based on personal preference, and in contradiction of the CDC's guidelines and their own clinic's instructions, I really needed to hear the doctor's reasons.

She left to talk to him. After a few minutes of muffled conversation in the hall, she returned and brightly said "Ok, we dont' need to wait - we can give them both."

My trust in the pediatrician has taken a nose-dive. I see two possible scenarios here. 1 - He had good reasons to separate the doses, but gave in and put my kids at risk because he didn't want to bother explaining himself. (I seriously doubt this was the case.) 2 - He was going to risk my kids' health on the basis of vague, unscientific worries, and gave in because he didn't want to have to expose his lack of evidence.

Either way, I no longer trust his advice and judgment the way I used to, for the same reasons I would never accept any sort of treatment from you.

And in case you're wondering, it's been a week or two, and my kids are the same happy, healthy, flu-free children they were before their vaccination "injuries." That's an anecdote, of course, and has nothing to do with whether or not the vaccines are safe. It's also to be expected, given the proven safety of vaccines in general, and flu vaccines in particular.
It is not about vaccination -- actually about flea treatment for a pet -- but I came within a few days of falling for a post hoc fallacy that would have left me wracked with guilt for months. Click the link for the more detailed story, but a quick summary: I ordered flea treatments for my cats, but forgot to give them to them right away. A couple days later, one of my cats died suddenly and mysteriously from an apparent case of poisoning, though what it was, or even for sure that it was poisoning. If I had remembered to give her the flea treatment on time, I would be absolutely convinced that she had had a bad reaction to it, and that I had killed her. I never would have forgiven myself -- and yet it would all have been a dumb little post hoc fallacy.
James,
I believe I read this story previously. Have you posted about it somewhere before? Perhaps at Oracs?

Hilary,
Good for you. A couple of years ago, I would never have pushed a doctor like that. Most docs are good (my opinion, others have differing opinions). But these days, I realize no one, including myself, is immune from fallacies and magical thinking. Its really good you did that.
OttawaAli's avatar

OttawaAli · 803 weeks ago

I have a daughter slightly older than yours (she's been three since the summer). My daughter started signing when she was 8 months old and said her first word at 7 months, but her progression stalled after she turned 2. As I have a brother with Asperger's I was worried. Anyway, she goes through spurts of speech growth, but will stall and regress slightly. She's been on a constant upswing in language since she started pre-school in September!

On October 26 the H1N1 vaccine became available. I got her vaccinated (stood in line for 6 hours, and I hate crowds, but that's how strongly I feel about vaccination). She might have High-Functioning autism, most likely it's just a speech and social delay (she's a very happy kid though). Her spatial thinking during testing was pretty much off the charts, yet if you ask her how old she is she won't answer. My husband didn't really talk until he was 4.

Oh and since the vaccination her speech has improved even more. Today she even understood and answered my question when I asked her something even more abstract! She's super excited about Christmas too and I have barely mentioned it and last year she seemed very 'meh' about it. My daughter also got the squalene goodness one since we're in Canada.

PS: we're also from a French/English family (I am English, my DH is French) and though we've only really spoken English at home, she'll be attending French school next year!
1 reply · active 803 weeks ago
Thanks for commenting!

Its nice to hear similar stories. Stories like mine and yours make me continue to believe that the mercury militia simply have trouble understand or believing a Gaussian curve. Do they simply think that when someone says "Should be walking at 1 year", that if they are not walking at 13months then something is most definitely wrong? Perfectly normal kids grow up even though walking didnt start till 16 or even 18 months (I happen to know one). Same with speech, same with other metric that are examined for child development.

I realize that your story and my story are anecdotes, but we are not the ones going against a tidal wave of clinical studies.
Oh my gosh! Now I know why my three-year-old is suddenly able to let me drop him off in the morning without having a meltdown: We just got him both the seasonal and the H1N1 shots (a few weeks apart). Thanks for clearing that up for us. And I'm pretty sure this also explains why our autistic oldest son could remember his facts for his social studies test today so well.

Emily, PhD, biology. Postdoc, urology. Mom, Esq.
Thank you for posting this.

Autism wasn't thrown around in my childhood. ADD was, although my mother strongly suspected a developmental disorder, when I didn't speak until about 2 1/2, when I wasn't socializing or "getting" social rules, when sounds, scents, textures, large social groups upset me, when transitions were majorly difficult, when I seemed to be developing at a slower rate than my peers. My mother noticed, and my teachers noticed (they wanted to keep me back in kindergarten).

Either way, I wasn't diagnosed until fairly recently. I wonder what my life would have been like if I had gotten diagnosed in childhood, whether I would have gotten the services I needed, the accommodations in school much earlier, etc. how it all would affect me, compared to how I am right now.

But thank you for sharing your story.

Corina Becker
(also, another Canadian who has gotten the H1N1 vaccine)
on the not both at the same time, my son's ped likes to space them out, but no 30 day rule. He just thinks that maybe poking them so many times at once might be a little traumatizing. His partner at the clinic is a believer in getting it all done and over with. Of course, there was a bit of a mix up when my son needed a few vaccines, and my daughter needed the dtap, and well, she freaked out, and T got 2 dtaps. (yes, he's autistic, and no, he didn't regress after that. he regressed before that, and also before his mmr, bc I was a lazy mom that didn't get them all done at the right time). I have a sneaky suspicion that part of why T's dr prefers they be spaced out. and that Lola just leave the room for her vaccinations, while he examine's Tristan....

Tristan actually did improve in his symptoms right after a flu vaccine and a dtap vaccine last year. He also improved after his flu vaccine and h1n1 this year, but that might have something to do with the new Risperdal script this year....
er I have a sneaky suspicion that IS part of why...
Come to Australia where you don't some Government Child Benefits unless your child is vaccinated .
Great system where it lowers the number of children who are not vaccinated so childhood diseases do NOT get spread in schools or where kids get together.
We have been guilty of throwing stuff away and I always hate doing it! Great post!
I got the best online vaccinated daughter efforts and other topics. That everything you can find by click on this blog and thanks for all your updates given in this blog.

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